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New Post 4/13/2008 6:02 AM
  Valentin
8 posts
www.thegympress.net
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Power/plyometric training for Gymnastics 
Hi Prof Verkhoshansky

I am new to the forum, and new to your methods, ideas, research, however i very much like what i am reading, and would like to make the most of it.
I am gymnastics coach in New Zealand, as you might imagine its quite hard to hear what is going on in the rest of the world via gymnastics training. I have a couple of questions that i was hoping you might be able to answer for me.
1- I want to get a copy of your book "specific Strength Training. Practical Manual for Coaches" however i read you have a 2nd Ed coming out. Should i wait for that...will the amendments be that much different? What do you recommend.
2- What is your your opinion on gymnastics training...? Do you think that gymnastics leg training should be different? How. What would you recommend is the best way to introduce 6yr olds to jump training? Do you think it has any benefits. From a studies i have read (and personal experience), i know young kids (5-6yr olds) do not fully extend their ankles, knees, hips on a vertical jump, thus would it be more beneficial spending time on developing the vertical jump instead of any speciific jump training...?
3- What would you recommend training wise for female gymnasts (ages 10-11yrs old), non elite, train 3 days a week (monday, Tuesday, Friday), with a relatively weak leg strength base level (due to lack of training). How would you go about trying to develop their power. At the moment they do this (i am 100% sure this method is not very effective for developing power, and i know it needs improvement hence why i am here and seeking your help. This is very standard leg training in gymnastics at least here in NZ). WHat do you think of this leg program? What are the benefits if any, and what are the short comings, how would you improve it if you could.
At the moment they do this program 2 days a week (Mon, and Tuesday (Friday is not an option unfortunately but ideally it should be Tus Fri trainings)
20 freeweight squats..slow on the eccentric phase explosive on the concentric
2 lengths of tuck jumps (along spring floor, so i would guess about 25-35 jumps...
10x (L and for R leg) from lunge jump up of front leg and drive rear leg upwards.. so from lunge to straight jump of 1 leg and other leg used to help with arm action
2 sprung floor lengths --- single leg kick hops ( so as the step, lunge and kick the rear leg up as they jump up of the front leg,. Similar to first exercise but moving fowards through the lunge and with a straight rear leg). I guess about 20 jumps
20x 1/2 squat, then push up to high revele, stand up on high tip toes, lower to stand (this is one exercise movements..we call it bend stretch rise lower).
4 lengths of long standing broad jumps in series ...i guess about 20-30 jumps
single leg balance with eyes close 1min each leg.

Is it ok to train upper body, abdominals etc.. in between leg sets? in order to give them active rest?

I am sorry if the post is a little messy. I hope it makes sense and look forward to your reply.
 
New Post 4/23/2008 11:59 AM
  Prof. Verkhoshansky
245 posts
www.verkhoshansky.com
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Re: Power/plyometric training for Gymnastics 

Dear Valentin Uzunov,

 

1. I want to get a copy of your book "specific Strength Training. Practical Manual for Coaches" however i read you have a 2nd Ed coming out. Should i wait for that...will the amendments be that much different? What do you recommend.

We are working on the second edition of “Special Strength Training: Practical Manual for Coach”, we are in the state of translation of the new text and new programs. We are facing the difficulties of the double translation, Russian – Italian – English and also the “translation” of concepts in another mentality. So, it needs more time that we thought at the beginning.

 

If you know Russian, I suggest you to read my book “Fondamentals of Specal Physical Preparation” that include more ample material than my “Manual for coach”. I am sure you will find in it all the answers to your questions.

If you know Russian and you are interested, let me know.

 

2.  What is your opinion on gymnastics training...? Do you think that gymnastics leg training should be different? How.

 

I never worked with gymnasts, but I think that the methodological approach of special physical and special strength preparation in this sport discipline must be different from Track&Field and sport games. What are the differences? I think that the elements of the gymnastic competition exercises are the best training means for SST. So, to elaborate a good SST gymnastic program it needs to be a good expert in gymnastic. This could sound obvious, but it’s very important.

 

Regards the training of child – athletes, I think that their training must be general, not very specific. This is the base rule of sport training.

 

3. What would you recommend training wise for female gymnasts (ages 10-11yrs old), non elite, train 3 days a week (Monday, Tuesday, Friday), with a relatively weak leg strength base level (due to lack of training).

 

Your jump program is quite good.

I think that it’s difficult to do something wrong coaching the 10 – 11 years old athletes.

The methods could be exactly opposed to those I suggest for high level athletes, in this case the method must be more complex as possible.

If you want to enforce the legs the athletes could perform the abdominal and upper body exercises during the intervals between jumps sets (this will be like the circuit training) or they could have an active rest as adult athletes - it’s not very important.

If you want to increase power it’s better use more short jump exercises performed with a concrete aim (longer, faster, higher). In this case it’s better to have an active rest between the jump sets.

 

Yuri Verkhoshansky  

 
New Post 4/25/2008 3:19 PM
  Valentin
8 posts
www.thegympress.net
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Re: Power/plyometric training for Gymnastics 
Thank you Prof Verkhoshansky for your reply.
Unfortunately i can't speak russian, and i can't understand it. I guess that would mean i would have to wait for the 2nd Edition of your book. Unless you were willing to provide me with a copy of your first english edition of the Special Strength Training: Practical Manual for Coach.

What do you mean by SST?. I haven't read your books yet so i am not familiar with all the abbreviations you use.

"Regards the training of child – athletes, I think that their training must be general, not very specific. This is the base rule of sport training."

In general i agree with this, but in gymnastics this i dont think it is practical. Just in the name of discussion here is what i think, please excuse me if i have misunderstood your comment.
At a young age and low level, gymnast are able to take part in additional sporting acitivities, however when the gymnast decides to commit to the sport their training hours can drastically increase, not to mention that specific training must take place at relatively young ages (for Elite atheltes in particular). For example without some kind of specific rebound training, gymnastics tumbling at a young age is not very successful, unless the athletes are natural gifted. For example, the requirements for gymnastics require gymnast at even low levels to show very fast and powerfull runs- and rebounds particularly in vault, and tumbling. Often gymnast are not able to perform the skills at that age not because they dont understand the technique, but because they lack the specific physiological capabilities (they aren't powerfull enough). As a result based on the principle of specificity particularly for preadolescent athletes general strenght training would not be very effective, so often coaches have to do some specific rebound training and developement specific to the event and skill.
Do you think is detrimental? Can you please explain why you think child athletes should not engage in regular specific training.

"If you want to increase power it’s better use more short jump exercises performed with a concrete aim (longer, faster, higher). In this case it’s better to have an active rest between the jump sets."

Thank you i appreciate you help here, it is good to know that i am on the right track. Can i ask, can you please explain in more detail why "The methods could be exactly opposed to those I suggest for high level athletes,"  I really appreciate you help here , and for your response . Can you recommend  any good texts on training for children .

Thank you
 
New Post 5/2/2008 1:15 AM
  Prof. Verkhoshansky
245 posts
www.verkhoshansky.com
1st Level Poster


Re: Power/plyometric training for Gymnastics 

Dear Valentin Uzunov,

it’s always pleasure for me to exchange ideas with a coach. Your arguments about the importance of the  specific physiological capabilities for the improvement of the gymnasts sport results is  the same argument that I usually discuss with coaches.
I think that it was only a misunderstanding in
what you and I mean with the item “specific training”.
In your precedent question you asked me about the methods to use the jump exercises. For adult and high level athletes, these methods must be very detailed because the organism of high level adult athlete is sensitive to any little variation of the method. For this reason, every minimal variation of the training exercises can influence their training effect.
The human body in the phase of development is not much sensible to the variations of training methods as the case of high level adult athletes. For this reason the training methods for child athletes could be more complex/holistic (more general) and not so elaborated or “specialized” as in the case of adult athletes.
Talking about the “specific training” I mean a different level of “specialty” of Special Physical Preparation that include Special Strength Training, SST.
So, I didn’t mean that the child athletes should not engage in regular specific training. 
SST is the part of the training process that regards the use of strength exercises and it’s finalized to increase the athlete’s sport result. This characteristic does SST different from the General Strength Preparation that is finalized to an harmonious development of the athlete’s organism. 

The theoretic aspects of the SST will be described in the second edition of “Special Strength Training: Practical Manual for Coaches”. 

 Yuri Verkhoshansky

 
New Post 5/12/2008 4:12 AM
  Valentin
8 posts
www.thegympress.net
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Re: Power/plyometric training for Gymnastics 
Hi Prof Yuri

I apprciate you response once again. As you said we seem to have had a misunderstanding as to the term of "specific training".
I understand what you mean with regard to sensitivity of training response between adults and young children.

Thanks
 
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