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| Russian Weightlifting Texts Used to Formulate the Westside Barbell System |
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All,
Hello and greetings from North Jersey. It is my understanding that one Louis Simmons formulated that which became known as the Westside Barbell Template via the reading and application of the following texts:
Fundamentals of Special Strength-Dr. Verkho
A System of Multi-Year Training-Medvedyev
Managing the Training of Weightlifters, N. P. Laputin
I have thoroughly read and, to the best of my ability via the assistance of my research partner and training partner at the time, a gent of a high MCAT score, understood these texts. Some may ask how I came to understand these works as being most important. One Steven Helmicki, president of Primordial Strength Systems, did ask one Louie Simmons what he read in order to formulate his system and the answer was given as is listed above.
It is quite a mystery to me that Mr. Simmons could have built his system based on those texts as things like going until one misses, according to my recollection, goes far beyond what the Russian weightlifting texts define as a “form break.”
Furthermore, the Russian texts directly state that the finest means of GPP is jumping and that restoration is not at all to be taken as sled dragging. Sled dragging is not at all general and is, in fact, redundant.
These terms seem to be clearly misapplied. I am a man not looking to fault answers but, to find them. Has anyone else truly studied these texts? Do the conclusions drawn by Mr. Simmons seem sound to anyone?
Examine the Medvedyev text on loading parameters. Also, if one is to apply the Prilipin chart to powerlifting the numbers become gravely inapplicable. Now, if one is to look at the Prilipin charts and transfer what I understand to be olympic barbell lifting percentages to bar speed and not bar weight and thusly knocks down all the percentages 20%, the chart can then, and only then, be applied to powerlifting as I do believe that any who has, for a period of more than six months, gone until they missed, has become more injured than helped.
Furthermore, I do believe that Dr. Verkhoshansky has stated some very interesting things about the Westside system that went largely-unnoticed.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PrS788QvEz8J:www.verkhoshansky.com/Forum/tabid/84/forumid/15/threadid/282/scope/posts/Default.aspx+verkhoshansky+westside+barbell&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
“My impression is that Westside Barbell is a good laboratory of empirical research on the methods of the base strength training.” Dr. Verkho
“Base levels of strength” does not, to me, and I do hope, other observers with an open mind, communicate any real support for such a means of training.
Base levels of strength. This seems to be a kind thing to say things amongst what would otherwise be a statement of disagreement. Dr. Verkhoshansky continued.
“The problem was not to find the best method to develop the maximal strength but to elaborate, for every sport disciplines, a system of training that allowed to assemble the strength loads with the other loads in a way to assure the improvement of sport result.”
It is directly stated in the Russian texts, again pardon the lack or quotes, that the chasing absolute strength is a means, and a sound one, of slowing down the athlete. Please see the March issue of Ironmind’s “Milo” to read Steven Helmicki’s article on the Primordial Strength Systems means of applying the extension of the Russian Shock to fight training.
What I unfortunately expect is some sort of, for lack of a better term, pissing contest, to see just who has trained whom and who is a true Bad Bad Leroy Brown as I have found when anyone, even on this board, questions Mr. Simmons.
I found Mr. Matt Wennings post in response to Mark McLaughlin of Performance training Centers to be quite rude on: 9/3/2007 6:33 PM
I saw four question marks used at one time, I saw a usage of “Hmmmm”s and generally, it just looked to be foot stomping.
Are we not more than this? Is this not the way that outsiders of the field of strength coaching, or, to the best of my knowledge, James Smith of Pitt has pushed forth in popularity as “Physical Preparadness Coaches” seen?
Gentleman, let us discuss things as men of brains and not of fists. No man is born with enough knuckles to settle anything in that manner. Come forth peoples of strength, let us finally act as gentleman and speak as cohorts.
Hopeful to be surprised,
Brad Shugrue
Founder: Primordial Strength: Jersey Chapter
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| Re: Russian Weightlifting Texts Used to Formulate the Westside Barbell System |
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Zatsiorky's and Kramer's Text "Science and Practice of Strength Training", also have had a large impact on his training philosophy. The 4 methods those being, Maximal, Dynamic, Repeat (or Sub-Max), and Repetition, come up in his articles, books, and on his videos via Youtube. While his training is no doubt based on SOME of the Eastern European texts, methods, etc., there is still means that are anecdotal from other powerlifters of his time (the 6RM Illegal Wide, training the grip the same way you use it in the deadlift, etc.) and empirical, any and all coaches have this kind of evidence that they use, especially when they have been around for as long as Louie has.
Ryan |
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| Re: Russian Weightlifting Texts Used to Formulate the Westside Barbell System |
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Dear Ryan,
I thank you for your contribution and clarification especially as relates to the Zatsiorsky book and the statement that it is quite doubtless that Mr. Simmons has put forth a considerable amount of empirical evidence in his work.
I have just now ordered the book that you speak of and have heard, in my own time, that this text was of considerable use to Mr. Simmons.
Undoubtedly, some things that previously existed in Louie’s head before having tried a study of other texts would have some sort of influence and it would be grandly-balderdashian to think anything to the contrary.
The Medvedyev text clearly states that Po (Absolute Strength) is best developed with work of, was it 80% Po?
GPP, Louie really just ran off with this one strangely and most-inaccurately. Restoration work is just so off that is maims my inner child. Sir, restoration work, as stated in the Russian texts, was not dragging a double bodyweight sled on off days. Sunbathing and hiking were the order of the day.
The Russians were so grandly-thorough that they programmed ten minutes a day of “loafing” which they defined as sitting on the side of a chair with limbs splayed. Mr. Simmons did bring America, or, I do believe, popularized “dynamic effort” but, it is just so poorly applied.
If the Russian texts state that speed strength is the most-difficult to improve then I must ask you why the Westsiders do not train at 40%. Much talk of “Special Strengths” and little effort to develop any of them outside of absolute.
It is my understanding that the waving of weights 40-50% has been replaced with waving weights in the 60-70% range.
I did read a Matt Wenning post that made statements about building absolute strength and it’s being a means of getting faster. The Russian texts contraindicates. It is a shame really. Athletes being trained with a physically injurious program with approximately six months of super-compensation.
I could go on for some time. It is really a shame that so many took the advice of one man without reading for themselves as much was missed. I have a very hard time thinking that one could have comprehended those texts and have built such a system as Westside’s.
I look forward to more interactions with open minded persons on this site,
Brad Shugrue
Founder: Primordial Strength: Jersey Chapter
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