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New Post 4/12/2007 6:46 PM
  magnush
3 posts
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conjugated periodization 

Hello again prof. Verkhoshansky.

My previous question about conjugated periodization seems to have disappeared in some way. I'll try again.

I was wondering if you are familiar with the concept of "conjugated periodization" as used by powerlifters at westside barbell (www.westside-barbell.com) . I believe this method is formulated by Louie Simmons. This periodization concept is explaiened to some length in an article by David Tate http://www.ontariostrongman.ca/Resources/training/Westsidetrainingpt1.html Some info can also be found in this text by the same author http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_129per

So my question is really if there are advantages / disadvantages with this style of periodization when training for strength/power?

Best regards

Magnus Höglund, Sweden

 
New Post 4/12/2007 11:57 PM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: conjugated periodization 
 magnush wrote

I was wondering if you are familiar with the concept of "conjugated periodization" as used by powerlifters at westside barbell (www.westside-barbell.com) . I believe this method is formulated by Louie Simmons. This periodization concept is explaiened to some length in an article by David Tate http://www.ontariostrongman.ca/Resources/training/Westsidetrainingpt1.html



Magnus,

the conjugate periodization wasnt developed by Louie Simmons. If my memory serves me well, it was developed by professor Verkhoshansky in 60s. Simmons took a lot of concepts from rusian training, and was havily influenced by Verkhoshansky & Zatsiorsky.


 
New Post 4/13/2007 2:07 AM
  magnush
3 posts
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Re: conjugated periodization 

In that case I guess prof. Verkohoshansky is all for it. ;-)

It seems to me however that they (westside barbell) are claiming to have come up with this conjugated periodization. But also that they state that this program  rely heavily on the work by Zatsiorsky and Verkhoshansky, but with some new twist to it.

 
New Post 4/13/2007 8:31 AM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: conjugated periodization 
Magnus,

It maybe because Westside is not actually the "conjugated sequence system".   Westside  looks to me more a concurent method which borrows some  features from other systems.


Dan Partelly
Romania
 
New Post 4/13/2007 12:50 PM
  Prof. Verkhoshansky
245 posts
www.verkhoshansky.com
1st Level Poster


Re: conjugated periodization 
Modified By 1511146@aruba.it  on 4/29/2007 11:07:55 AM)

Dear Magnus Höglund,

you thought right, in my works there are not the concept of "conjugated periodization" as used by powerlifters at westside barbell”.

It’s also right what Dan Partelly wrote, I introduced the ”conjugate-sequence system of training loads organisation” (Block – system) for Olympic sport athletes.  It’s absolutely another thing from the "conjugated periodization" of Simmons. I agree with Dan: Westside is not actually the "conjugated sequence system".   Westside  looks to me more a concurrent method which borrows some  features from other systems”.
May be Luis Simmons used some concepts from my other works, probably he applied some concepts of the “complex method” (see article “Supermethods”).

In this case the Simmons’s method could be effective for high level power lifters.

It’s very difficult to express a serious opinion about this matter because in the articles of David Tate there are not evidence of scientific verifications of its results.

 

Prof. Yuri Verkhoshansky

 
New Post 4/13/2007 4:29 PM
  mbloom
5 posts
No Ranking


Re: conjugated periodization 

Louis Simmons worked/trained directly with Dr.Mel Siff for awhile which helped shape some of his training methods, and I believe Siff worked with Louie because he appreciated the way Louie went about his training and the methods they have used at Westside. Louie has applied the methods and concepts he uses (whether it be from Verkhoshanksy, Siff, Sozanski, Zatsiorsky, and others) to athletes of all sports that come in his gym, one of whom was a gold medal winning track-and-field sprinter in the Olympics. Louie has written articles at westside-barbell.com that sometimes has the results of "experiments" or studies that he does with his fellow lifters at Westside Barbell... like the article titled 'Optimal Eccentrics' where he also briefly discusses Prof. Verkhoshansky's plyometric method. Those articles might help in understanding which concepts he applies.

Matthew Bloom

 
New Post 4/14/2007 12:20 AM
  magnush
3 posts
No Ranking


Re: conjugated periodization 

Yes.

There are a lot of articles on wistside-barbell.com that probably explains the system in more depth.

I am not familiar with the conjugated sequence method, but I was thinking of using the westside type of training regim as a means of training within season (for volleyball). It is mainly the concept of periodizing within each week of training so that the strength-components aren't diminished during the season that seems appealing to me. 

Any thoughts on that? 

 
New Post 4/16/2007 1:59 PM
  Prof. Verkhoshansky
245 posts
www.verkhoshansky.com
1st Level Poster


Re: conjugated periodization 
Modified By 1511146@aruba.it  on 4/16/2007 5:27:53 PM)

You asked me to express my opinions about Luis Simmons’s  “conjugate periodisation” and not about the coach Luis Simmons, for whom I have no doubts, he is a grate coach.

I am afraid we are pointing to different meanings for the used terminology. May be this is the most important problem for the East-West communication. For this reason, it’s difficult for me to understand what is the “conjugate periodisation” and consequently I had some difficulties to express my opinion about it.

 

In East Europe sport training methodology, the word “periodisation” means the subdivision of training process in periods related to the different training’s tasks. There is also the conception of Training Periodisation of L. Matveev, that is based on his particular principle of training’s process planning, different from my conception of “Training Programming”.

But from what is in my knowledge, I can suppose that in the West the word “periodisation” is synonym of “training’s planning” and the conception of Matveev’s Periodisation  has named “Linear periodisation”. My conception of “Training Programming” is often wrongly associated with word “programming” that is the general activity to define the training programs.

 

May be also the word “conjugate” has been used in the West with another meaning.

For example, I am not sure that the Conjugate Method of Luis Simmons is the same Conjugate Method that I know.

In the article of Simmons “The Conjugate Method” has been reported that this method was invented in 1970th by weight lifters of Dynamo Club (USSR): “They were introduced to a system of 20-45 special exercises that were grouped into 2-4 exercises per work-out and were rotated as often as necessary to make continuous progress They soon found out that as the squat, good morning, back raise, glute/ham raise, or special pulls got stronger, so did their Olympic lifts. When asked about the system, only one lifter was satisfied with the number of special lifts; the rest wanted more to choose from. And so the conjugate system was originated.”

 

The Conjugate Method that I know was invented in 50th  by my teacher, the famous high jumpers coach  V. Djachkov. It was a brilliant idea to use the special strength exercises for improving the technique of athletes. For the first time in the Sport Training Methodology was introduced the idea that to adjust the competition exercise technique is necessary to increase the strength level expression in determinate movements.

At that time I and Djachkov elaborated together this method and I suggested him to name it “conjugate” because the strength exercises have to be “conjugated” with the technical issues of the athletes. After, I introduced the Principle of Dynamic Correspondence to select and elaborate adequate special strength exercises on the base of the biodynamic structure analysis of competition exercise.

Often, in USSR the Conjugate Method was used also as “the execution of competition exercise with overload”.

So, the original idea of “this” Conjugate Method is not simply “the rotation” of the same group of special exercises during the preparation period, but it is the “conjugate” use of special physical preparation exercises and technical exercises in the same training session.

 

In 60th, I started to use the special strength preparation exercises and technical works not in the same training session, but in different sequenced training sessions, and later, in different sequenced training stages.

When I elaborated the structure of special physical preparation in speed-strength disciplines, I understood that also special strength work consists in different types of exercises, that can be conjugated from them in sequence (can be used in different training sessions and in different training stages).

This idea was utilised in my Physical Preparation Training Methodology where I introduced:

the Conjugate-Sequence System of training loads organisation, the Principles of Concentration and of Superposition of  different training loads and the Block System of training.

 

Therefore, now in the East Europe sport methodology there are two different models for the use of  different types of loads in training process: complex-parallel and conjugate-sequence.

In the first case these loads are used together with “continuous rotations of the same special exercises” during all preparation period.

In the second case these loads are used in the sequence, one type of loads  after another, everyone concentrated in a special training stage.

 

 If the conjugate periodisation is another name of complex-parallel model of training loads organisation and you wish know my opinion about it, I can answer very shortly.

The complex-parallel model is much more simple than the conjugate-sequence because it doesn’t need the exactly quantitative model of training load distribution during the preparation period.

It’s better use the complex-parallel model for non expert athletes who have a not stabilised technique and a low level of physical preparedness (in any case when the coach doesn’t know very well  the training experience of the athletes).

The complex-parallel model can be used also for high level athletes:

-          in the first phase of preparation period, before they start the concentrated physical preparation work,

-          when they don’t need to increase radically their physical preparedness level, but they need to “conjugate” their high level physical capacities with the technique ( it’s particularly important in some sport disciplines).

 

In generally, the conjugate-sequence model is much more effective that complex-parallel for high level athletes with high level of physical preparedness.

In the sport disciplines where the sport result is strictly related with the increase of the physical preparedness level these athletes need to increase further their level of physical preparedness. In this case the training programs have to be elaborated very carefully.

There are many other aspects about this issue but it need too much time to explain all the aspects involved.

I hope this post will clarify, at least, the main arguments.

 

Yuri Verkhoshansky

 
New Post 4/17/2007 1:40 PM
  julienverne
1 posts
No Ranking


Re: conjugated periodization 
Modified By 1511146@aruba.it  on 4/17/2007 6:51:43 PM)

Hej Magnus

I guess you already thought about it but if you 're intrested in strength training and volley ball maybe you could speak about it with Nils Holmdahl who's working with Orebro Volley....

And anyway with a height of 1.83 and a spike height of 3.17 your strength training program seems no to be too bad...lol

Julien Verney, France (Postmaster add)

 
New Post 4/17/2007 6:33 PM
  mbloom
5 posts
No Ranking


Re: conjugated periodization 

Magnus

In your last post you talked about your concern of not wanting your strength characteristics to diminish during the season, and using the westside method so they wouldn't. The westside method, which is basically the complex-parallel method as Prof. Verkhoshanksy suggested, would be a good method to use. I use this method DURING my sport season and actually increased my overall physical performance, including my maximum lifts in the free squat and the box squat. I have heard of many others who were actually able to increase several strength-components during the season like this. I wouldn't lift over 90% too much so that you can spend more energy on volleyball and perform at your best during competitions.

Matt

 
New Post 4/21/2007 6:21 PM
  mickmorrey
5 posts
No Ranking


Re: conjugated periodization 
You guys are getting your wires crossed over a misunderstanding. Louis and the westside people use the term conjugate in its purest i.e. 'to join/marry' - in this case the relationship between RE, ME, DE methods. It is not meant to be a reflection of the methods used in the literature.
Its more concurrent in nature, as has been pointed out.
 
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