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New Post 11/18/2007 10:48 PM
  pablo7
5 posts
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Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 
Dear Dr Verkhoshansky,

It is a pleasure to be on this site.

I wanted to ask you a question about the difference between your method of periodization and the westside barbell periodization model. What are the main differences between the two methods? and can you please give me examples?

Thanks very much

Yours truly,

Paul Lonsdale
Oasis Fitness Ltd
Newbury, Oxon
+44(0)7817804924
 
New Post 11/21/2007 11:35 PM
  pablo7
5 posts
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Re: Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 
anyone???
 
New Post 11/22/2007 9:37 PM
  Mac
4 posts
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Re: Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 
Do a GOOGLE search for West Side Barbell OR EliteLifts.com and there are numerous articles on the West Side methods.  It is evolving as we speak althought the basic template (like good spaghettis sauce) is the same..  The "doc" anwers this in one of his posts and from what I 've been able to discern...Louie Simmons the "designer" immersed himself in the Russian===German and Mell Siffs literature and came up with his system of training for POWER lifting .
 
New Post 11/23/2007 9:31 AM
  pablo7
5 posts
No Ranking


Re: Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 
 Mac wrote
Do a GOOGLE search for West Side Barbell OR EliteLifts.com and there are numerous articles on the West Side methods.  It is evolving as we speak althought the basic template (like good spaghettis sauce) is the same..  The "doc" anwers this in one of his posts and from what I 've been able to discern...Louie Simmons the "designer" immersed himself in the Russian===German and Mell Siffs literature and came up with his system of training for POWER lifting .
Precisely. I found millions of articles on how WSB do their template but couldn't find a single one on russian conjugated periodization or the original system before Louie modified it. Been there and done all that but I didn't find the answer I was looking for. Does anyone have like a template or something on the orignal system?
 
New Post 11/23/2007 2:04 PM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 

Westside is not based on Conjugate Sequence system.  Louise didnt modified any conjugate sequence system. 

The Conjugate sequence system is throughy described in prof. Verkhoshansky's books. If you buy them , you will learn it. A complete explanation is more than its easily written on a forum board.

Besides , if you had done the effort to browse and search the toopics on this forum, you would see that this question surfaced several times already. Forget Westside. It has nothing to do with conjugate sequence system. The only thing in common between the two is the word "conjugate" in their names

 

Dan Partelly

Romania

 
New Post 11/23/2007 2:47 PM
  pablo7
5 posts
No Ranking


Re: Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 
 Dan wrote

Westside is not based on Conjugate Sequence system.  Louise didnt modified any conjugate sequence system. 

The Conjugate sequence system is throughy described in prof. Verkhoshansky's books. If you buy them , you will learn it. A complete explanation is more than its easily written on a forum board.

Besides , if you had done the effort to browse and search the toopics on this forum, you would see that this question surfaced several times already. Forget Westside. It has nothing to do with conjugate sequence system. The only thing in common between the two is the word "conjugate" in their names

 

Dan Partelly

Romania



Dan could you please do me a favour and advise on which books to get as I am truly lost? Also are they in English or Russian?

I really need help understanding because I am confused.

Thanks


 
New Post 11/24/2007 7:54 PM
  PMANDL
8 posts
No Ranking


Re: Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 
 Dan wrote

Westside is not based on Conjugate Sequence system. Louise didnt modified any conjugate sequence system.

The Conjugate sequence system is throughy described in prof. Verkhoshansky's books. If you buy them , you will learn it. A complete explanation is more than its easily written on a forum board.

Besides , if you had done the effort to browse and search the toopics on this forum, you would see that this question surfaced several times already. Forget Westside. It has nothing to do with conjugate sequence system. The only thing in common between the two is the word "conjugate" in their names

Dan Partelly

Romania



Hi Dan,

I just wanted to add a bit to what you wrote.

While WSB is a concurrent, or complex-parallel, model according to what Dr. Verkhoshansky has previously written on the subject, I did want to chime in that there are some iterations of it that could be considered conjugate-sequence as they involve the sequential rotation of training means/methods over short, specialized blocks that compose a larger "main adaptation cycle".

The best example of this would be the Advanced Squat Cycle developed by Paul Childress (based on an earlier idea of Louie Simmons) which can be seen here:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Advanced_squat_cycle_paul.htm

This was developed from an idea of Louie Simmons' that he referred to as a circa-maximal training phase.

As you can see from this example, the training effect largely comes from the sequential rotation of progressively more difficult training methods. The Heavy Band Phase could be likened to Block A, the Circa Maximal Phase would be Block B, with intensification of training means and intensity, and Block C is the tapering into the competition.

Also, I know that some WSB lifters tend to consolidate both their DE (speed-strength) and ME (maximal and strength-speed) training into focused blocks usually lasting 3-5 weeks before changing the training means. This can be the use of bands, chains, or weight releasers on the DE day, or the rotation of exercises and intensity on the ME day. Further, these phases tend to involve the gradual change in means, placing emphasis on some while reducing others to maintenance loads (as in the case of the Advanced Squat Cycle, maximal-effort work is generally placed on maintenance).

The WSB model in itself is not conjugate-sequence, but when organized into sequenced blocks like this it may well become that way.

I would be interested in hearing Dr. Verkhoshansky's input on this when he has the time to comment, as it may well be that I'm mistaken, but this has been my take on it.

Matthew Perryman
Fort Lauderdale, FL
 
New Post 11/24/2007 8:50 PM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 
Modified By Prof. Verkhoshansky  on 11/30/2007 5:10:25 PM)
Hi Matthew,

Organization in sequence doesn’t make a system Conjugate Sequence System.  For example, a sequence of preparation and competition  phases of training doesn’t mean conjugate sequence system, even if we have 2 distinct blocks A and B, competition and preparation for example.  I personally see no similarity at all between what we know about Westisde (god knows in fact what they do inside their own gym) , and conjugate sequence system.

The squat cycle is interesting , but in my view  it doesnt replaces gradually over time means of training with more efficient ones, it just uses squats and bands.  It does  manipulate intensity  , volume.

 Also the *finality* of  this cycle as a whole is realization of a singular ability , max-strength.  I see no reason for trying to artificially assimilate the 3 parts of this squat cycle with blocks A,B,C... X of the conjugate sequence system, where each block is finalized to develop a **different** ability.

In my opinion, regardless of methods used,  in the sport of powerlifting , the finality of the training is realization of max-strength. Therefore, I would not assimilate their methods of training not even
with complex-parallel  method. While some powrerlifting organizations may have  a "speed"  day,  the finality and emphasis of their program is not speed of technical movement in competition, max-strength is always emphasized.

Olympic sports have different requirements. The finality of strength training  is to improve the competition movement, to increase their power. Traditionally, this was done through complex-parallel
method , where different abilities where trained concurrently. The finality of the training loads in such a case must target different abilities, for example  max-strength , explosive strength , max anaerobic power  ....  The finality is not geared towards realization of max-strength alone like in the sport of powerlfting.

In CSS , the main components of power are realized in blocks with *different* emphasis, geared toward realization of the components of power  (mainly strength, speed)

Dan Partelly
Romania
 
New Post 11/24/2007 9:29 PM
  PMANDL
8 posts
No Ranking


Re: Difference between russian sequence periodization and west side barbell periodization? 
You are quite likely correct; I've made the same argument myself in the past that due to the motor needs of powerlifting (ie, maximal strength in the three lifts), that there's really nothing to "conjugate" as compared to a sport with more complex motor needs.

In re-reading Dr. Verkhoshansky's comments in another thread, he states the same thing, that there's really no separate motor abilities to develop and thus no need to apply the CSS concept. Though, ironically enough, bodybuilding fits the bill as it has several possible training targets that can be staged appropriately.

The only thing that nags at my mind is the interplay of the different elements that can go into powerlifting; while maximal strength is the end-goal of powerlifting, muscle mass, strength-speed, technique, and even limited amounts of reactive strength all contribute to a degree, and while there is some overlap, I'm uncertain as to whether or not there would be any utility in separating these elements into discrete blocks, versus simply training them as a single element.

This would be similar to how the elements of bodybuilding overlap. Perhaps someone can phrase this in terms that I can more easily grasp, because I think I'm not quite wrapping my mind around it. In all likelihood, I'm simply over-analyzing things, which I have a tendency to do.

I suppose from that standpoint, WSB incorporates as many of the elements of the CSS as could be expected in such a sport despite not being a true CSS model.

Matthew Perryman
Fort Lauderdale, FL
 
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