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New Post 4/24/2008 9:53 PM
  Andreas Linardatos
7 posts
www.bosco-system.com
No Ranking


Vibration Training 

Since the last few years we hear more and more about vibration training, I would like to open a new topic about this training methodology. 

Vibration training is the latest scientific training approach for enhancing performance and speeding up recovery and rehabilitation.

Prof. Bosco was the first scientist to prove to expose that every person has his own muscle frequency. After experimenting with a vibration training device called GALILEO, he developed even more this training methodology by adding a measurement system to a completely new machine with also different technical characteristics. He named his invention NEMES BOSCOSYSTEM.

NEMES is the acronym of NEuro-muscular MEchanical Stimulation, a training method invented by the Italian Prof. Carmelo Bosco, who was a leading scientist in sports physiology.  The method focuses on the maximization of stimuli to the neuromuscular system and bones, carefully dosed for each individual. NEMES-BOSCO is the most advanced and revolutionary training system for sports and health to-date, because it is designed to vibrate at the individually measured frequencies (Hz) of its users. This is accomplished through the internationally patented built-in electromyograph (EMG) measuring system.

The method has been successfully applied by numerous national teams, professional athletes and sport clubs (NBA, FIFA, NFL, etc) rehabilitation centers, health clubs and sports enthusiasts worldwide.  Vibrations can stimulate the biological system of athletes in the same way as strength training or explosive training and this stimulation can be applied in a much shorter period of time as compared to the time needed to perform traditional training sessions (Bosco, C; Cardinale, M; Tsarpela, O; Locatelli, E: New trends in training science: The use of vibrations for enhancing performance; New Studies in Athletics, Vol.14, No.4, 1999, pg.55-62.)

I have personally been experimenting with vibration training (NEMES) the last 7 years and have added this training stimulus in my speed training menu. Results are impressive.

I believe that it opens a new window in sports science and gives coaches and scientists new possibilities for studying and enhancing human performance. Although resistance training effectiveness has been demonstrated due to the possibility of enhancing neuromuscular performance, power output, strength and hormonal profile. However, the time needed for these adaptations to occur is relatively long as compared to the possibilities offered by vibration treatments.

Vibration training is an exciting tool of sports science and certainly it can be viewed as the "Next Step" in exercise approach!

 

 
New Post 4/25/2008 10:43 AM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: Vibration Training 

Andreas,

Your post sounds very much like a commercial, a marketing text .

Ive heard good things about vibrations,  but anyway, since you report  impressive results in your personal case,  please share them with us:

1.       What do you mean by ‘impressive’ results

2.       How did you determined that results are due to vibration training, and not due to the rest of training loads applied during those 7 years ?

Dan Partelly
 
New Post 4/25/2008 2:49 PM
  Valentin
8 posts
www.thegympress.net
No Ranking


Re: Vibration Training 
Hi I would agree that the science behind vibration training is very impressive, so do the results from most studies however its still not quite conclusive, and there do seem to be unanswered questions, particularly with regard to training protocols specific to vibration training (according to me knowledge on the topic, please let me know if you know otherwise, and please quote references as well). However vibration training is far from practical in most cases, because vibration machines cost way to much. I have wanted to experiment with the application of vibration training for gymnastics, but prices of platforms has always been my biggest problem. At the moment there is some studies on vibration training and flexibility in gymnast done by Dr W.A Sands, and J. McNeal and others, but aside from that i have never seen its application on body weight training and other skill specific applications.
 
New Post 4/27/2008 3:15 PM
  Andreas Linardatos
7 posts
www.bosco-system.com
No Ranking


Re: Vibration Training 

Dear Dan,

Thanks for your reply to the topic I've opened.

However you missunderstood the meaning of the topic and its purpose. It's absolutely NOT a commercial - marketing text and if the administration of the forum believe the same as you do, I would like to request to erase the topic. Vibration training is a fact and if someone wants to make a simple research on the web he will find numerous scientifc research papers related to the bennefits of this training/rehabilitation methodology. Just to name a few scientists such as Bosco, Viru, Torvinen, Issurin, Delecluse, Rubin, Rittweger, Tylee and many more, who have shown if WBV as a method is worth to tryor not. Because I have found this training application very interesting I have made my own research as well. So, I can't "close my eyes" to one of the most known articles which was published in the IAAF magazine "New Studies in Athletics", some years ago.

II haven't done my own scientific research on WBV, just added this methodology in my training programms (for sprint events). The impressive results that I mentioned in my first topic is the increase in power (LSJ, STJ) as well in absolute strength (+5% in 6 weeks) and speed/speed endurance. Weight lifting during the same period of time was eliminated. I repeat that these results are not a result of an scientific research, but it is the training results on elite level athletes, which I use to train several years.   

 
New Post 4/27/2008 6:42 PM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: Vibration Training 
Dear Andreas,

A simple WEB search will not show any conclusive evidence of  superiority  of ovibration training in practice over other training means. Yes, some studies "sound" good.  The little info I got seems to indicate that pracically, is a good tool for warming-up , and possivbly rehab.

Could you please share a little bit more:

1. What strength training regimen was in effect for previous mesocycle ( lets say about 6 - 8 weeks ) before vibration training
2. What other training (if any) was done simultanously with vibration protocols?
3. Could it be that increases you see in your power are just due to realization of previous training loads ? Did you seen the improvments *right* at the end of ending vibration protcols, or after executing more training loads after vibration , of any kind ? If yes, what kind ?
4. How did you measure the 5% increase in strength ? Expressed in what kind of movement ?
5. What protocol did you followed for vibration training ? What frequencies , duration , and so on.

Thanks for responding to my questions.

Dan Partelly


 
New Post 4/28/2008 1:37 AM
  Andreas Linardatos
7 posts
www.bosco-system.com
No Ranking


Re: Vibration Training 

Dear Dan,

Please see my answers in orange colour below.

A simple WEB search will not show any conclusive evidence of  superiority  of ovibration training in practice over other training means. I didn't stated this. I just said that this training methodology is worth to give it a try. However, weight lifting or plyometrics do have an injury risk higher than vibration training. I certainly believe that a coach should  use different training methods and not just only one. Yes, some studies "sound" good.  The little info I got seems to indicate that pracically, is a good tool for warming-up , and possivbly rehab. If the research papers of the scientist I have given as example "sound good" to you, that means that you probably don't accept them totally... We really need to have a start point in our conversation. Do you believe in vibration training? Do you have any systematic experience with it as a training tool? If yes and you have negative results, we could talk about the reasons. If you don't have any experience I would gladly share mine. In any case if you realize that the optimal vibration training frequency (possible to measure with EMG) is similar to plyometric stimulus (muscle contraction up to 250-300% of 1RM) then you would change your mind that it is just "a good tool for warming up".


Could you please share a little bit more:

1. What strength training regimen was in effect for previous mesocycle ( lets say about 6 - 8 weeks ) before vibration training Prior vibration training the athletes were in a 2 week break (between winter and summer training period). Before those two weeks the athletes were competing. They did power training, twice/week,  for the last 4 weeks (half squat 4-6sets x 4reps, 60 - 80% 1RM / explosive, plus some multiple jumps up to 50m x 3-5reps) 
2. What other training (if any) was done simultanously with vibration protocols? Regarding power training, only vibration training for 7 weeks. No weight lifting.
3. Could it be that increases you see in your power are just due to realization of previous training loads ? Absolutely not. The athletes were "too far away" from regular heavy weight training protocolls. Did you seen the improvments *right* at the end of ending vibration protcols, or after executing more training loads after vibration , of any kind ? At the end of week no. 8, easy week, I completed a test of 1RM in 90o squat. All athletes (5 men-2women) improved their pb. (average of +5%). If yes, what kind ? No other training loads,regarding strength / power, except the regular running training.  
4. How did you measure the 5% increase in strength ? Expressed in what kind of movement ? 90o squat / 1RM
5. What protocol did you followed for vibration training ? What frequencies , duration , and so on. I used a NEMES LXB machine and I had the ability to measure every start of the training session their optimal vibration training frequency. The training protocoll (3times/week) was as follows:

week 1: (40sec x 4 reps) x 2set , R1=60sec, R2=5min      R1=rest/reps, R2=rest/set

week 2: (50sec x 4 reps) x 2set , R1=1.30sec, R2=6min

week 3: (60sec x 4 reps) x 2set , R1=1.30sec, R2=6min

week 4:  no vibration training

week 5: (50sec x 4 reps) x 3set , R1=1min, R2=6min

week 6: (60sec x 4 reps) x 3set , R1=2min, R2=6min (extra load in some exercises +25 Kg) 

week 7: (70sec x 4 reps) x 3set , R1=2min, R2=6min (extra load in some exercises +35Kg)

week 8: test 1RM in 90o squat.

I want to repeat that I do believe that a coach should use many different training tools in his training protocolls. I found that vibration training has many bennefits and it is a methodology worth trying. Other impressive results were elasticity of the hamstrings. In addition the athletes needed less time to complete their power training session (compared to regular weight lifting or jumping routine) and had more time to recover until their second afternoon training. Also the risk of injury was eliminated.

Andreas

 

 
New Post 4/28/2008 1:30 PM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: Vibration Training 


Andreas,

  First, let me thank you for the detailed answers to the points I raised.

 To answer your question, I don’t either believe or disbelieve in vibration training.  I don’t know enough about it, and my practical experience is quite limited, far from being enough to draw a conclusion.  But I like to think at myself as a person open to anything new, hence the questions about your practical experience with it. You completely misunderstood that I have to change my mind about it, if I understand similitude to plyometric stimulus, for I don’t have my mind set on anything, with respect to this issue.

One of my good friends have access to a vibration platform, but without a EMG incorporated. Do you have any experience with protocols where you have to “guess” frequencies? Can you indicate a good protocol?

And since you are an authorized distributor of the system, can you post or mail me the latest prices for the line of products you sell ?

 

Thanks a lot, Dan


 
New Post 4/29/2008 1:58 AM
  Andreas Linardatos
7 posts
www.bosco-system.com
No Ranking


Re: Vibration Training 

Dear Dan,

Yes I misunderstood some points of your reply. I appologize for this. Unfortunatelly that can happen in a Forum, but surelly not in a live conversation :-)

To answer your question, I need to rely on science and simple training rules.. I will ask you a question and you will understand my point. lets say for example that I would like you to train me and to improve my pb in the squat exercise. So far so good. But under one condition. I will not tell you what my current pb is. So you will not be able to design a training protocoll for me, since you can't figure out percentages of my unkown 1RM. This senario is the same in the question you asked me. Since you have no way to find in which frequency a user is responding with supra-maximum muscle contraction to the vibration stimulus, me or anybody else can NOT guess which would be the optimal frequency or what  a "good" training protocoll would be.

I have measured the last 8 years probably 2500 users or even more (amateur athletes, pro's, patients with neuromuscular dissorders and so on). There was no "rule" or a way to make "groups" of them. For example 2 Olympic Champions optimal training frequency was measured many times at 35Hz and 20Hz for each. But I have measured also 50Hz for people that were over 50years and never trained or people with serious neuromuscular dissorders. Every persons CNS reacts different to the vibration stimulus and this is a scientific fact. My company might be an authorized distributor for this system, but my proffesion is not to be a salesman. I have graduated from the University of Athens in Sport and Science and my specialization is in Athletics and Coaching. My experience as well, since except my national level pb's as athlete (21.50sec/200m and 47sec/400m) was a nice motive to continue as a sprint coach in this sport and work with elite level athletes (10.15/100m and more), which I still do.

For any additional information please send your e-mail to the company.

Thank you, Andreas

 

 

 
New Post 4/29/2008 11:30 AM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: Vibration TrainingDear  
Dear Andreas,

So basically all devices whithout a EMG are useless , for you dont have feedback on optimnal frequencies ?

Dan

 
New Post 4/29/2008 8:27 PM
  Andreas Linardatos
7 posts
www.bosco-system.com
No Ranking


Re: Vibration TrainingDear  

Dear Dan,

To train an ability such as speed, endurance, power, strength you need to know what's the maximum output is. How otherwise will you be able to design a training program? Vibrations are fiven in Hz. If you don't know which frequency activates maximum your muscles you can't go nowhere. Vibration and ordinary weight lifting are different things. How more kg you add the higher the muscle contraction, right? Well, this is NOT true for vibration training. Your muscles react max at one specific frequency. If you increase the frequency you will decrease your muscle contraction. So its wrong if you design a training program based on what you know that is valid for weight lifting.

I guess that when the patent of Bosco will expire, all vibration training machines will have this measurement system buil-in.

Andreas

 
New Post 4/30/2008 10:17 AM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: Vibration Training 
Dear Andreas,

Thank you for letting me know that vibration and weight lifting are different things. Im sure the esteemed members of this forum didnt realized it yet.

Interesting what you tell me.  I hear that 4 products from line Nemes - Bosco, out of 6, are prety useless , right ?   Why are they / any authorized distributor of the system try selling devices whithout a EMG ? Just to cash in ? Since you clearly stated they cant be used for any meaningful results in the post above. Can you make a statement on this ?

thank you, Dan



 
New Post 5/1/2008 4:41 PM
  Andreas Linardatos
7 posts
www.bosco-system.com
No Ranking


Re: Vibration Training 

Dear Dan,

You need to consider that vibration training is a plyometric stimulus, since it activate the muscle system over 100% in the optimal training frequency.

The NEMES BOSCO models are not 6 and no one is trying to sell any device without EMG The reason why there are models without EMG is simple and I can explain it for you. A fitness place or a sport team who would like to  have more than 1 NEMES need actually at least one machine with the EMG. The machines without EMG have a lower price, so the club can save some money. you understand ofcourse that every user has to find his optimal frequency prior getting into this training methodology. The testing results are not valid to be used on any other vibration training device, since the technical data (vibration power etc) are not the same.

Andreas 

 
New Post 5/1/2008 6:34 PM
  Dan
58 posts
6th Level Poster


Re: Vibration Traininge 

Dear Andreas,

Thank you for responding so professionally to all my questions. The answers where useful  and your effort  is appreciated.

Dan




 
New Post 5/1/2008 8:07 PM
  Andreas Linardatos
7 posts
www.bosco-system.com
No Ranking


Re: Vibration Traininge 

Dear Dan,

Did you have any experience with this type of training ? The reason of my post in the first place was to exchange experience and become better, since vibration training is still very "young" in the coaching field. To find new ways to enhance performance is always a challenge and to reach the next level is not an easy job.  

Andreas

 
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