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New Post 5/19/2008 5:04 AM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Usage of Drop Jumps 

Dr Verkhoshansky or any expert, what is the proper way to incorporate drops jumps for an athlete(an athlete with shock training experience and good strength and jump/sprint numbers) specifically looking to improve his force absorbation in a running vertical, or in other terms utilize more speed in his running vertical jump to gain inches? Have not found much useful information on the topic of drop jumps.

Thanks, Joe Rizzo,  PA- USA

 
New Post 5/19/2008 9:18 PM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Joe Rizzo,

According to Dr. Verkhoshansky, it's best to use the Conjugate Sequence System with regards to depth jumps. He outlines it as starting with jumping exercises (box jumps, vertical jumps, ect), moving onto barbell exercises (barbell squats), then jumps with weights (kettlebells are prefered over barbells), and finally using depth jumps. For more information on this, I'll refer you to Supertraining.

As far as improving the athlete's jump with a prior run-up, I am in the process of planning training for this as well. Personally, I will use things such as: bounds and series jumps, and short sprints. I will begin to introduce depth jumps toward the end of this block (the one being planned) and use them as a main means of improving explosive strength in the lower body in the block to follow.

Obviously it would be wise to include jumps with a run-up in the training. They may be used as a testing tool used before the main portion of training to assess readiness. Personally, if I were to use them as a main means of improving peformance I would use them in the last block of training leading up to practices. However, since this movement is directly seen in the sport itself, you may not need to perform them separately; the very specific conditioning, which should be taking place at that time, would sufficiently cover this need.

Hope this helps, good luck.
Darryll Brixey
NY, USA

 
New Post 5/19/2008 9:39 PM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Now, are you only referring to depth jumps(stepping off a box and rebounding upward), because I was referring to Drop Jumps or Altitude Landing (Stepping off of a box and landing with a slight knee bendage absorbing the shock)? Thanks for the response

 

Joe Rizzo, PA, USA

 
New Post 5/19/2008 11:41 PM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Joe Rizzo,

I appologize for the misunderstanding. I was referring to depth jumps. I have seen people argue that drop jumps are not "specific" to sports which require a jump following the storing of strain engery (as in a drop jump). The arguement is that it does not teach the body to utilize the stored energy.

However, I feel that drop jumps would be used in the beginning blocks of training (where training is more general). I also feel that, depending on the preparedness of the athlete, drop jumps would be included in the warm-up and should not be a main focus.

Darryll Brixey
NY, USA

 
New Post 5/20/2008 4:29 AM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Yes well I would also agree and say that no weight lifting is sport specific besides of coarse to weightlifting athletes.

Here is a video of me actually doing the drop jumps off 36 inch  as sort of a warmup exercise which I did 10 drops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be8bNkLLN6o

While were at it here is a video of me doing a depth jump off of a 18 inch box nipping the rim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3ORt6mmolM

And here is me doing weighted barbell squat jumps, not sure if my form is the best or my knee flexion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-2DYWd0pQU

 
New Post 5/20/2008 5:12 PM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 
Also in the above jump squats, is it more optimal to perform the jumps in the traditionally repitious manner or to do one jump reset and do another jump?
 
New Post 5/21/2008 1:42 AM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Joe,

I agree with your statement regarding the specificity of weight lifting exercises.

The way in which you perform the jump squats should coincide with the targeted outcome. I will refer you to Dr. Verkhoshansky's article entitled "Resistance Exercises as a Specialized Means for Physical Preparation of Athletes." The article can be found in the "Articles & Documents" section of this site.

Darryll Brixey
NY, USA

 
New Post 5/23/2008 4:28 PM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 
Thanks for your help and suggestions Darryll. One question still remains, will drop jumps have a positive transference to improving my absorbation phase in my running two legged and/or one legged jump?
 
New Post 5/23/2008 10:30 PM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

The transference that a drop jump has to the activity you're describing depends on the preparedness of the athelte. With the details you've provided, I would speculate that the a two-legged drop jump from, say, 30 inches, would have minimal impact on the ability to absorb forces in the run up for a few reasons (think about the amount of force that is created in each activity, where the force is being applied, and how the energy that is stored is subsequently used). There are better options. Find what the T&F jumpers use and go from there. Good luck with the training Joe.

Darryll Brixey
NY, USA

 
New Post 5/31/2008 2:03 AM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Thanks for all your help. One final question for yourself or anybody else who would like to respond. Assuming an athlete has a correct amount of prepardness and is using depth jumps in the correct block or time frame and will do 380-400 depth jumps, would .75m(approx 29 inches) be the most optimal box height for the depth jumps if the athlete is looking for the best results in reactivity and with the ultimate goal of significantly improving  running vertical jumps?(two legged as the main focus)

Joe Rizzo

PA, USA

 
New Post 6/5/2008 3:13 AM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Joe,

A way of finding the best box height for the athlete is to try a variety of heights and record the height of the subsequent jump. The box that provides the athlete with the highest subsequent jump is the optimal height for that athlete and should be used as that athlete's "max". This is the best way I could think of going about finding optimal box height without the use of technology.

Also, pay attention to the ground contact time of the athlete. If the goal is reactivity, ground contact time should be minimal. This means that even though the athlete's "max" may be, for example, 25 inches, the best height to improve reactivity maybe 20 inches.

I hope this helps.

Darryll Brixey
NY, USA

 
New Post 6/5/2008 4:43 AM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Thanks Darryl. This still somewhat confuses me though, take the below quoted statement made in one of Dr. Verkhoshansky's posts

"Nevertheless the results of my experiment indicated that, when the Depth jump has been used for the reactive capacity increasing, the drop height should have 0.75 m(approx 29.5 icnhes), and it doesn’t depend on the legs strength of athletes."

 

Would this not mean that if I am lacking in both reactivity and explosive strength this would be the best height to improve both of these areas leading to a better improved vertical jump?

 

Also is there any email or other way I can contact you Darryl, I would like to correspond some further basketball training thoughts, thanks

Joe Rizzo, PA, USA

 
New Post 6/6/2008 2:51 AM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Joe,

I cannot dispute anything Dr. Verkhoshansky says. I only outline my thoughts on this subject as one viable option. It may be the conservative option, but it is a logical solution to the problem at hand, none the less.

I would prefer to keep correspondence on the forum. This allows others to benefit from the discussion, as well as provide input. Many minds working together for a solution is much better than one or two. However, if you have specific questions, you can reach me at this email: dbrixey1@ithaca.edu

Darryll Brixey,
NY, USA

 
New Post 6/9/2008 5:39 PM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Reactive capacity is the exact same as reactivity correct?

Also, what is the most optimal surface for performing depth jumps out of: Fieldturf, Indoor Basketball Floor, Track?

 

Thanks again, Joe Rizzo, PA, USA

 
New Post 6/11/2008 3:23 AM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Joe,

This has been covered over on the EliteFTS Q&A. I believe James Smith and Dr. Yessis have both written on it.

As an overview of the extremes: mats/foam provide the most cushioning, while increasing ground contact time and diminishing the returns of the stretch shorten cycle; a concrete floor will provide the least cushioning, while maximizing the returns of the stretch shorten cycle (assuming the athlete can handle the load placed on the body). Field turf and track surface are closer to the effects seen with mats, while an indoor basketball floor is closer to the effects of a concrete floor. 

Orthopedic considerations must be taken into account.

Hope this helps.


Darryll Brixey
NY, USA

 
New Post 6/13/2008 4:47 AM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

On sort of a different note, I have read on here that 390-400 depth jumps is the Maxiumum when using the shock method, what would be the Minimum number of depth jumps when using the shock method?(In a given block)

 
New Post 6/15/2008 11:08 PM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Joe,

The volume/intensity of depth jumps depends on where you are in the year. In your case, since you are looking for improved reactivity, as opposed to maintainance, I would use a drop off system. For example, once you establish a "max" for your depth jump (as far as both box height and height of the subsequent jump), select a certain percentage of a drop off you will stop at.

Using hypothetical numbers....say your "max" is a subsequent jump of 40 inches off a 25" box. I'll select a 10% drop off (for simplicity...this is probably too high of a drop off; the greater the drop off, the greater the volume). So, using the same 25" box you would perform jumps, using what you deem necessary as far as rest periods, ect, until you can no longer perform a subsequent jump of 36 inches (40"*10% = 4"...40"-4" = 36"). This is just one way...there are many more. Keep looking into things, Joe. For more information on using "drop offs" check out DB Hammer's stuff and Dr. Verkhoshansky/Siff's book "Supertraining".

Hope this helps.

Darryll Brixey
NY, USA

 
New Post 6/20/2008 7:30 PM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Thanks, have been trying to read through Supertraining.

 

Can it be assumed that if a trainee is in the middle of a shock method variant block(week 3 of doing approx 60 depth jumps per week depending on autoregulation from 25 inch height to 29 inch height)that if the trainee tests running vertical and standing vertical, the trainee will not reach a PR and possibly be lower than the pre shock vertical due to the body being worn down by the shock method? What would be an optimal rest period after a 4 weeks period of shock before testing vertical?

 
New Post 6/20/2008 9:03 PM
  bball2020
13 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Also Dr. Verkhoshansky, Darryll et al here is a video of me performing my depth jumps. My VJ PR is 10'1", but that is subjective because I have just recently purchased a vertec. My PR off a 25" depth jump is 10'0". The purpose of my current block is general reactivity and explosive strength via Dr. Verkhoshanky's shock method recommendations. Here is a video of me touching 10'0"..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW4ArnvjUQc

Joe Rizzo PA, USA

 
New Post 7/4/2008 6:12 AM
  DBrixey
17 posts
10th Level Poster


Re: Usage of Drop Jumps 

Joe,

Regarding reaching a PR during a block with high volume of depth jumps, it would depend on the previous training. The cummulation of training effects should provide the athlete with sufficient preparedness to reach a PR. The question is, if the readiness is present in order to reach the PR on the given day. Being familiar with your prior training, I would not definatively say that you should be reaching PRs in training. It may happen, it may not. However, given the proper restorative block following the block you are currently in, you should reach a PR.

Something to keep in mind...as a gaurd, an outstanding VJ is not essential. Actually an outstanding VJ is not essential at any position. The ability to maintain your effort is, however. Also, the reactivity that you are gaining by performing depth jumps will serve you well on the coart. Good luck with your training, Joe.

Darryll Brixey
NY, USA

 
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